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	<title>Comments for Joseph Waligore</title>
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	<link>http://www.josephwaligore.com</link>
	<description>Writings on the History of Ideas</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:02:05 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on English Deists Miracles by Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.josephwaligore.com/the-enlightenment/english-deists-miracles/comment-page-1/#comment-11962</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.josephwaligore.com/?page_id=7#comment-11962</guid>
		<description>Thomas Paine:
http://www.deism.com/paine_essay_atheism.htm
 He Wrote:
In a Deistic community educational school....
&quot;The mechanic of every profession will there be taught the mathematical principles necessary to render him a proficient in his art; the cultivator will there see developed the principles of vegetation; while, at the same time, they will be led to see the hand of God in all these things.&quot; 

&quot;the hand of God&quot; means his continuous intervention, control, guidance etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas Paine:<br />
<a href="http://www.deism.com/paine_essay_atheism.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.deism.com/paine_essay_atheism.htm</a><br />
 He Wrote:<br />
In a Deistic community educational school&#8230;.<br />
&#8220;The mechanic of every profession will there be taught the mathematical principles necessary to render him a proficient in his art; the cultivator will there see developed the principles of vegetation; while, at the same time, they will be led to see the hand of God in all these things.&#8221; </p>
<p>&#8220;the hand of God&#8221; means his continuous intervention, control, guidance etc.</p>
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		<title>Comment on English Deists Miracles by Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.josephwaligore.com/the-enlightenment/english-deists-miracles/comment-page-1/#comment-11961</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.josephwaligore.com/?page_id=7#comment-11961</guid>
		<description>http://naturesgod.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=20&amp;t=701&amp;p=3269&amp;hilit=intervention#p3269
Thomas Paine:
http://www.deism.com/paine_essay_atheism.htm
 He Wrote:
In a Deistic community educational school....
&quot;The mechanic of every profession will there be taught the mathematical principles necessary to render him a proficient in his art; the cultivator will there see developed the principles of vegetation; while, at the same time, they will be led to see the hand of God in all these things.&quot; 

&quot;the hand of God&quot; means his continuous intervention, control, guidance etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://naturesgod.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=20&#038;t=701&#038;p=3269&#038;hilit=intervention#p3269" rel="nofollow">http://naturesgod.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=20&#038;t=701&#038;p=3269&#038;hilit=intervention#p3269</a><br />
Thomas Paine:<br />
<a href="http://www.deism.com/paine_essay_atheism.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.deism.com/paine_essay_atheism.htm</a><br />
 He Wrote:<br />
In a Deistic community educational school&#8230;.<br />
&#8220;The mechanic of every profession will there be taught the mathematical principles necessary to render him a proficient in his art; the cultivator will there see developed the principles of vegetation; while, at the same time, they will be led to see the hand of God in all these things.&#8221; </p>
<p>&#8220;the hand of God&#8221; means his continuous intervention, control, guidance etc.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on English Deists Miracles by waligore</title>
		<link>http://www.josephwaligore.com/the-enlightenment/english-deists-miracles/comment-page-1/#comment-11960</link>
		<dc:creator>waligore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 20:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.josephwaligore.com/?page_id=7#comment-11960</guid>
		<description>Thomas Paine is not mentioned because this essay was focused on earlier English deists.  In writings on my other site where I discuss deism in much more detail (Enlightenmentdeism.com) Paine he is mentioned much more prominently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas Paine is not mentioned because this essay was focused on earlier English deists.  In writings on my other site where I discuss deism in much more detail (Enlightenmentdeism.com) Paine he is mentioned much more prominently.</p>
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		<title>Comment on English Deists Miracles by Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.josephwaligore.com/the-enlightenment/english-deists-miracles/comment-page-1/#comment-11959</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 20:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.josephwaligore.com/?page_id=7#comment-11959</guid>
		<description>Why the most well known Deist of the modern times Thomas Paine is not even  mentioned anywhere in the article?
This seems in accordance with the Castillian, renamed catholic Church&#039;s  paid writers tradition in their publications.
Thomas paine is also most vocal in expressing God&#039;s continuous intervention in personal and collective matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why the most well known Deist of the modern times Thomas Paine is not even  mentioned anywhere in the article?<br />
This seems in accordance with the Castillian, renamed catholic Church&#8217;s  paid writers tradition in their publications.<br />
Thomas paine is also most vocal in expressing God&#8217;s continuous intervention in personal and collective matters.</p>
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		<title>Comment on English Deists Miracles by Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.josephwaligore.com/the-enlightenment/english-deists-miracles/comment-page-1/#comment-11958</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 20:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.josephwaligore.com/?page_id=7#comment-11958</guid>
		<description>Why the most well known Deist of the modern times Thomas Paine is not even  mentioned anywhere in the article?
This seems in accordance with the Castillian, renamed catholic. Church  paid writers tradition in their publications.
Thomas paine is also most vocal in expressing Gods continuous intervention in personal and collective matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why the most well known Deist of the modern times Thomas Paine is not even  mentioned anywhere in the article?<br />
This seems in accordance with the Castillian, renamed catholic. Church  paid writers tradition in their publications.<br />
Thomas paine is also most vocal in expressing Gods continuous intervention in personal and collective matters.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Enlightenment Miracles by قاموس</title>
		<link>http://www.josephwaligore.com/the-enlightenment/enlightenment-miracle/comment-page-1/#comment-11012</link>
		<dc:creator>قاموس</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jan 2012 23:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.josephwaligore.com/11/#comment-11012</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll immediately clutch your rss as I can not to find your e-mail subscription link or e-newsletter service. Do you have any? Please let me realize in order that I may just subscribe. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll immediately clutch your rss as I can not to find your e-mail subscription link or e-newsletter service. Do you have any? Please let me realize in order that I may just subscribe. Thanks.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>Comment on Stoics and God by Douglas Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.josephwaligore.com/greek-philosophy/stoicism/comment-page-1/#comment-9637</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 05:58:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.josephwaligore.com/?page_id=55#comment-9637</guid>
		<description>Thank you for sharing your very lucid and well-written article on the Stoics. Like you, I also see a linkage, a certain symmetry even, between Indian thought and the Stoics. 
I like to try to understand the Stoics by putting their school of thought in opposition with the Epicureans where one can really see a kind of epistemological symmetry of ideas at play. The atomist, dualist Epicureans on one side, face off the monist Stoics on the other. This fundamental opposition between dualism and monism is a long recognized constantly recurring refrain right throughout the history of ideas. It is so fundamental in fact, that it seems that there are inexorably two diametrically opposed takes on reality. The psychiatrist, Iain McGilchrist in his book The Master and the Emissary, sees this dynamic playing across history, and drama also playing out in the very architecture of the two hemisphere of the brain. McGilchrist sees people of modern times becoming ever increasingly left brain dominant. He doesn’t mention the times of the Stoic though. I see the Epicureans as being particularly left brain dominant  thinkers whilst the Stoics were right brain dominant. Here on can laugh a bit, as Zeno was known as always walking around with his head tilted to one side! 
So the modern trend is towards the atomistic, dualist abstract world of the Epicureans rather than the unified monist world view of the Stoics. Our present day sciences and mathematics are all based on a “left side” kind of abstract formalism. Personally, I am working on an alternative but complementary formalism to modern day abstract science. I call it the generic. According to me, the Stoics were generic thinkers, not abstract thinkers. For example, Stoic logic only deals with particulars and shuns generalisations. Unlike Aristotle’s syllogistic logic, there are no species or genera in Stoic logic. Stoic logic and reasoning is restricted to what is called first order logic. Abstraction requires second order logic and set theory. 
For the Stoics, only particulars exist. Abstract generalisations don’t exist and so are ignored in the Stoic perspective. Restricted to non-abstract first order logic and only reasoning in terms of particulars seems to be an immense price to pay for the purity of their doctrine. However, there is an upside. The downside with abstract thought is that it only uses first order semantic. This is where the Stoic generic right side paradigm can come to the fore. Even though only first order logic, it can employ second order semantics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for sharing your very lucid and well-written article on the Stoics. Like you, I also see a linkage, a certain symmetry even, between Indian thought and the Stoics.<br />
I like to try to understand the Stoics by putting their school of thought in opposition with the Epicureans where one can really see a kind of epistemological symmetry of ideas at play. The atomist, dualist Epicureans on one side, face off the monist Stoics on the other. This fundamental opposition between dualism and monism is a long recognized constantly recurring refrain right throughout the history of ideas. It is so fundamental in fact, that it seems that there are inexorably two diametrically opposed takes on reality. The psychiatrist, Iain McGilchrist in his book The Master and the Emissary, sees this dynamic playing across history, and drama also playing out in the very architecture of the two hemisphere of the brain. McGilchrist sees people of modern times becoming ever increasingly left brain dominant. He doesn’t mention the times of the Stoic though. I see the Epicureans as being particularly left brain dominant  thinkers whilst the Stoics were right brain dominant. Here on can laugh a bit, as Zeno was known as always walking around with his head tilted to one side!<br />
So the modern trend is towards the atomistic, dualist abstract world of the Epicureans rather than the unified monist world view of the Stoics. Our present day sciences and mathematics are all based on a “left side” kind of abstract formalism. Personally, I am working on an alternative but complementary formalism to modern day abstract science. I call it the generic. According to me, the Stoics were generic thinkers, not abstract thinkers. For example, Stoic logic only deals with particulars and shuns generalisations. Unlike Aristotle’s syllogistic logic, there are no species or genera in Stoic logic. Stoic logic and reasoning is restricted to what is called first order logic. Abstraction requires second order logic and set theory.<br />
For the Stoics, only particulars exist. Abstract generalisations don’t exist and so are ignored in the Stoic perspective. Restricted to non-abstract first order logic and only reasoning in terms of particulars seems to be an immense price to pay for the purity of their doctrine. However, there is an upside. The downside with abstract thought is that it only uses first order semantic. This is where the Stoic generic right side paradigm can come to the fore. Even though only first order logic, it can employ second order semantics.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Rise of Science by jillian</title>
		<link>http://www.josephwaligore.com/rise-of-science/comment-page-1/#comment-9076</link>
		<dc:creator>jillian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2011 00:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.josephwaligore.com/?page_id=60#comment-9076</guid>
		<description>I think you have done a wonderful job with this site!
PLEASE KEEP IT GOING..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you have done a wonderful job with this site!<br />
PLEASE KEEP IT GOING..</p>
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		<title>Comment on Spiritual Empiricism by Aine Oakwood</title>
		<link>http://www.josephwaligore.com/new-age/spiritual-empiricism/comment-page-1/#comment-8746</link>
		<dc:creator>Aine Oakwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2011 19:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.josephwaligore.com/?page_id=95#comment-8746</guid>
		<description>Faith can be experienced as mystical/divine presence in the heart or soul or consciousness or awareness (these four here meant to be aspects of experienced reality), and is hence part of spiritual empiricism. 
It would rule out experienced reality and honesty and truth to - apriori - state that faith is not an experience. 
I like your courage of your general subject matters, and may Divine Being bless philosophy dearly :) 
(I am not trained in philosophy beyond half a year at University so my statements do not have the clarity and precision I would have liked them to have.) 
I hope you continue searching, researching, posting and writing. 
And, William Johnston: spirituality is at the heart of theology, the heart of theology is mystical theology, i.e. spirituality. 
Open the experience of religion and see spirituality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Faith can be experienced as mystical/divine presence in the heart or soul or consciousness or awareness (these four here meant to be aspects of experienced reality), and is hence part of spiritual empiricism.<br />
It would rule out experienced reality and honesty and truth to &#8211; apriori &#8211; state that faith is not an experience.<br />
I like your courage of your general subject matters, and may Divine Being bless philosophy dearly <img src='http://www.josephwaligore.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
(I am not trained in philosophy beyond half a year at University so my statements do not have the clarity and precision I would have liked them to have.)<br />
I hope you continue searching, researching, posting and writing.<br />
And, William Johnston: spirituality is at the heart of theology, the heart of theology is mystical theology, i.e. spirituality.<br />
Open the experience of religion and see spirituality.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Spiritual Empiricism by Raphi</title>
		<link>http://www.josephwaligore.com/new-age/spiritual-empiricism/comment-page-1/#comment-8189</link>
		<dc:creator>Raphi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Sep 2011 23:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.josephwaligore.com/?page_id=95#comment-8189</guid>
		<description>I do hope you read this...even though written long after your piece was posted.  I&#039;ve only recently discovered your writing.  As per one of those &quot;follow the links&quot; and end up far from the original item.  Makes for interesting synchronicities if one is open to the possibility.

It is enjoyable to read someone who takes non-rational phenomena seriously.  Notice I did not say &quot;irrational.&quot;  I hold that the two are not identical.  The non-rational has a logic of its own; patterns that can be discerned.  In addition, someone who has such experiences can compare them to religious traditions, the lineage of western esotericism, and contemporary writers whose books emerge out of their own experiences.  Some have depth, some don&#039;t.  But we have to start somewhere.  And comparisons help us to clarify our own spiritual experiences.

I also appreciate your writing because you make explicit the need to make reasonable arguments for the claims of spiritual beliefs.  Which implies that anyone rejecting such claims should abide by these same rules. No appeal to authority as if some a priori determinant has already set all possible answers.  Like your point about A. Cohen rejecting out of hand any credence to angelic messages.  That&#039;s to know beforehand all there is to know about a subject.  Which would mean omniscience and make the claimant a god of some sort.  

Rather like a scientist rejecting astrology-- which could only be done fairly by studying the subject in detail. Only then rejecting it because its methods did not produce predicted results.  However, it would be appropriate to say something like: from what I&#039;ve seen, astrology does not seem scientifically proven to me.  Very different than insisting that, regardless of one&#039;s actual experience with the subject, one can simply &quot;know&quot; it is false.

Or conversely, that it is true.  This seems to me to be the position taken by some New Age believers.  Right at the edge of solipsism.  Slippery territory, that.  What self-respecting New Age political progressive would seriously argue that blaming the victim is appropriate?  But that&#039;s the implication of the idea you create your own reality.  What need, then, of political or economic reforms?

Your point about the empirical 5 senses as containing the subset of information as limited to those 5 senses is an important idea.  It reveals what is hidden.  One group values &quot;I think,&quot; another values &quot;I feel.&quot;  They&#039;re versions of that old metaphor of the blind men and the elephant. In addition, thinking and feeling can both be based on sensory data.  

But what about information from sources not connected to any immediate sensory input?  Those of us familiar with these other modes consider their denial irrational.  Those whose beliefs exclude the possibility a priori thereby judge what is real or unreal.  Which is also a strict boundary of either/or.

I envision this dichotomy as better expressed by something like the Tree of Kabbalah.  Which can serve as a frame for what you called spiritual senses.  The Tree of Life, strictly speaking, is way more complex than what I have in mind here.  But taken as meaning the functions within the realm of Yetzirah or Psyche, it&#039;s useful.  Dreams I would place in Netzach.  Also feelings, meaning emotions.  Divine messages in Hod-- what is more appropriate than the realm of Thoth/Hermes? There, too, is the home of rationality.  Gut feelings, which are bodily sensations, often warnings, fit with Yesod.  That&#039;s also the place of instincts.  Angelic inspirations, often connected with light, seem to be coming through Tiphareth.  These four quadrants also work with Carl Jung&#039;s model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do hope you read this&#8230;even though written long after your piece was posted.  I&#8217;ve only recently discovered your writing.  As per one of those &#8220;follow the links&#8221; and end up far from the original item.  Makes for interesting synchronicities if one is open to the possibility.</p>
<p>It is enjoyable to read someone who takes non-rational phenomena seriously.  Notice I did not say &#8220;irrational.&#8221;  I hold that the two are not identical.  The non-rational has a logic of its own; patterns that can be discerned.  In addition, someone who has such experiences can compare them to religious traditions, the lineage of western esotericism, and contemporary writers whose books emerge out of their own experiences.  Some have depth, some don&#8217;t.  But we have to start somewhere.  And comparisons help us to clarify our own spiritual experiences.</p>
<p>I also appreciate your writing because you make explicit the need to make reasonable arguments for the claims of spiritual beliefs.  Which implies that anyone rejecting such claims should abide by these same rules. No appeal to authority as if some a priori determinant has already set all possible answers.  Like your point about A. Cohen rejecting out of hand any credence to angelic messages.  That&#8217;s to know beforehand all there is to know about a subject.  Which would mean omniscience and make the claimant a god of some sort.  </p>
<p>Rather like a scientist rejecting astrology&#8211; which could only be done fairly by studying the subject in detail. Only then rejecting it because its methods did not produce predicted results.  However, it would be appropriate to say something like: from what I&#8217;ve seen, astrology does not seem scientifically proven to me.  Very different than insisting that, regardless of one&#8217;s actual experience with the subject, one can simply &#8220;know&#8221; it is false.</p>
<p>Or conversely, that it is true.  This seems to me to be the position taken by some New Age believers.  Right at the edge of solipsism.  Slippery territory, that.  What self-respecting New Age political progressive would seriously argue that blaming the victim is appropriate?  But that&#8217;s the implication of the idea you create your own reality.  What need, then, of political or economic reforms?</p>
<p>Your point about the empirical 5 senses as containing the subset of information as limited to those 5 senses is an important idea.  It reveals what is hidden.  One group values &#8220;I think,&#8221; another values &#8220;I feel.&#8221;  They&#8217;re versions of that old metaphor of the blind men and the elephant. In addition, thinking and feeling can both be based on sensory data.  </p>
<p>But what about information from sources not connected to any immediate sensory input?  Those of us familiar with these other modes consider their denial irrational.  Those whose beliefs exclude the possibility a priori thereby judge what is real or unreal.  Which is also a strict boundary of either/or.</p>
<p>I envision this dichotomy as better expressed by something like the Tree of Kabbalah.  Which can serve as a frame for what you called spiritual senses.  The Tree of Life, strictly speaking, is way more complex than what I have in mind here.  But taken as meaning the functions within the realm of Yetzirah or Psyche, it&#8217;s useful.  Dreams I would place in Netzach.  Also feelings, meaning emotions.  Divine messages in Hod&#8211; what is more appropriate than the realm of Thoth/Hermes? There, too, is the home of rationality.  Gut feelings, which are bodily sensations, often warnings, fit with Yesod.  That&#8217;s also the place of instincts.  Angelic inspirations, often connected with light, seem to be coming through Tiphareth.  These four quadrants also work with Carl Jung&#8217;s model.</p>
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